What's your 9's mileage II?

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What's your 9's current mileage?

0 - 10k (miles)
7
9%
11 - 20k
18
22%
21 - 30k
28
34%
31 - 50k
19
23%
51 - 70k
8
10%
71 - 100k
0
No votes
101 - 125k
0
No votes
126 - 150k
1
1%
151 - 200k
0
No votes
over 200,000 miles
1
1%
 
Total votes: 82

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e1_ZX-9r
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by e1_ZX-9r »

152K, 153K
I'm betting there's a river canyon up there with some twisty roads. Let's go find out.

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By far my favorite bike of all time.
Kawasaki ZX-9R Ninja EVAP sE1. At the track she's said to be outclassed, but on the street, she reigns unmatched. It's a years old claim, challenged from every direction, but always the same outcome or worse. I hear next year's challenger is going to do the trick. ;)
-- Mods: Genuine Keihin rejetted, Nissin caliper upgrade, SuperTrapp Aluminum Racing Series exhaust (Made in USA), ZG sport-touring shield, AEM UEGO wideband digital AFR readout, Evans NPG waterless coolant, éan creiche malar stripes.


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bobbydj
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by bobbydj »

Looks amazing - esp. the snow. My mate was on a ride in Scotland the week before last, and there was some snow still on the peaks up in the north there too.

Mine just rolled round to 94k last week, so it was time for oil and filter (do roughly 4k intervals, but this time was closer to 5k). My C2 is still ailing, a bit - making weird intermittent "clack" noises at low speeds in low gears. I do wonder, though, whether it's doing it all the time - but I can't hear it once I get over a certain speed and the engine's a bit louder, and the wind noise kicks in. That said, it's been doing this for about the last 10k so who knows how serious it is. It'll do an indicated 120 with ease - and accelerates from low speeds just as well as it did when I got it w/ 18k on it. Also, idle sounds lovely - so I'm guessing it's clutch or gearbox related (?).

I'm not going to delve into it, though. I've got a C1 waiting, if the C2 does finally croak. Atm I alternate between the two - a week on the C2, and the next on the 1 and carry on like that. The 1 is still on the Tokicos, but I do have some Bandit 4 pots ready to go in once the pads are worn. That might be a wee while though cos my riding style usually aims to be light on the brakes.

All that said, the C1 itself is in need of a little bit of fettling - it idles like shite, and the C2 feels livelier and more eager pretty much everywhere. If I'm honest, I'm still not sure I haven't been lumbered with a Euro bike, with the 100bhp restrictions in play, although the clocks are in miles not km and, also, even though I dyno'd it at 120bhp.

I think my mate's tester might be erring on the generous side by quite a margin. Not sure how much discrepancy there is. But according to some estimates, it's reckoned that with rolling road (rather than engine) testing, figures can vary by as much as 10% from run to run, even on the same day (!!). Then factor in the variation from one dyno to another and you could get yet another 5-10% discrepancy. This could, theoretically, take the overestimate to beyond 20% over-reading error - or so it seems. Which in turn could bring my C1's output down to 100bhp-ish.

In the meantime, I'm pretty convinced the C1 needs carbs syncing at the very least - the horrible idle (which seems to be on three), and the somewhat lethargic starting, and strange behaviour when on full choke, could be a number of things I suppose. Plugs? Imbalanced carbs? Air filter? However the first thing to check would be valve adjustment. Even though the previous owner(s) kept a carefully annotated notebook with at least two shim charts from past work, it's possible that the bike is out of adjustment.

Once that variable has been ruled out, the possibility of plugs and other factors can be eliminated (and corrected where necessary). I'll then be in a position to get the C1 onto another dyno tester. I'm lucky in that there are two local places that dyno bikes - next time I'll go to John Warrington Motorcycles over in Malton (John is big into Kawasakis btw). As well as getting a second reading on the bike itself, it'll be interesting to see how the figure from the dyno at my preferred fettler (ASL Motorcycles in Murton) compares to John's in Malton.
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by Grinsaki »

bobbydj wrote: 21 May 2022, 07:57 making weird intermittent "clack" noises at low speeds in low gears.
This could be the chain clacking to the swingarm. My B did the same and it was caused by a tight spot in the chain.
Happily driving and refurbishing a ZX-9R B1 8)

Past bikes:
Quite a few...mostly the ones that will hurt you due to self overrated driving abilities and lean angles... :D
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by bobbydj »

Grinsaki wrote: 21 May 2022, 09:02
bobbydj wrote: 21 May 2022, 07:57 making weird intermittent "clack" noises at low speeds in low gears.
This could be the chain clacking to the swingarm. My B did the same and it was caused by a tight spot in the chain.
Yeah that's a good call actually. Someone else mentioned this previously. It's certainly true that my chain has a lot of miles in it - guessing over 50k. It's also true that from the tightest spot to the loosest spot the difference is - I dunno - more than 20mm, maybe 25. I need to check it tbh.

While we're on the subject, one thing I did come across when I tried to drill down into this a couple of years ago is that - as you may well know - an lateral eccentricity in the rear sprocket can create a noticeable amount of play in the chain. So for instance, you replace chain and sprockets (it being advisable to do both the sprockets and the chain as opposed to e.g. just the chain). But yet, once fitted, you find the new chain has very noticeable tight spots - and you're thinking wtf, how can this be?? I bought a DID chain and a decent sprocket, why is this chain not more even across its length?? I actually suspected that I'd bought a knock-off i.e. fake chain at one point!

With a bit more due diligence, I found out that DID chains come with a verification code stickered onto the box, and the DID website has a way to check the code (apparently!). Anyway, by the end of all this palaver, I was about 80% convinced that in fact my chain was genuine.

So I was still left with the question of why there was such a noticeable amount of slop in the chain at the slackest point. Or tightness at the tightest, if you prefer. After a bit more investigation I found explanations on line and on YouTube that claimed such issues can be a consequence of lateral sprocket eccentricity. So then - was there a problem in the casting of the sprocket?!?!? This seemed possible - but unlikey.

In the end, things seemed to point to the possibility that the sprocket had not been tightened in the recommended way of gradual star patterning, so finger tight then going from one nut to the opposite nut and doing quarter of a turn, then going to the next quadrant (as it were), and doing the same, and so on. Then another quarter of a turn in tightness, and repeating. So that in this way there's more chance that any eccentricity can be minimised and hopefully eliminated. However, even when being really careful to attach the sprocket in this way, the chain was still slightly uneven in tension along its full travel. Although it had improved.

One other thing - Alan at ASL said to check for witness marks beneath the swing arm as chain lash could theoretically scratch paint and metal there. I thought that was a good thought too.

I dunno. It was all a bit unsatisfying and inconclusive, ultimately. Nevertheless, you definitely raise a good point. Before pulling the trigger on replacement chain and sprockets, one test would be to overtighten the chain slightly, to try and remove some of the (excess) play at the loosest point, and just go for a short and quite slow ride, doing some slow manoeuvres and see if the clacking sound lessens or even disappears altogether. If I can do that, I can then chuck 150 quid at a chain and sprox kit. Apologies for this long reply, btw. I just thought I'd mention some previous issues I've encountered. ; - )
Last edited by bobbydj on 21 May 2022, 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by bobbydj »

Grinsaki wrote: 21 May 2022, 09:02
bobbydj wrote: 21 May 2022, 07:57 making weird intermittent "clack" noises at low speeds in low gears.
This could be the chain clacking to the swingarm. My B did the same and it was caused by a tight spot in the chain.
I think it's this, now.

On Saturday I decided to try and solve it properly. My plan: To ride slowly around the village, in a way that typically causes the bike to make the clacking noises. I.e. in low gears at low revs. The second part of the plan: To overtighten the chain and see if this changed anything.

Results: I never got to the second part. Why? Because I couldn't get the bike to make the noise.

What the hell. Then....I remembered....Two weeks ago I tightened the chain slightly, prior to going over to Morley to get a suspension set-up.

So then I tried to remember if the bike had made the noise in the last week or so, and I couldn't be sure either way, but I thought maybe it hasn't. I'm now thinking it IS the chain. I am going to keep an ear / eye on it, but plan to fit new chain and sprockets in the next few weeks. The current set owes me nowt.
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by e1_ZX-9r »

bobbydj wrote: 21 May 2022, 07:57...All that said, the C1 itself is in need of a little bit of fettling - it idles like shite, and the C2 feels livelier and more eager pretty much everywhere. If I'm honest, I'm still not sure I haven't been lumbered with a Euro bike, with the 100bhp restrictions in play, although the clocks are in miles not km and, also, even though I dyno'd it at 120bhp.

I think my mate's tester might be erring on the generous side by quite a margin. Not sure how much discrepancy there is. But according to some estimates, it's reckoned that with rolling road (rather than engine) testing, figures can vary by as much as 10% from run to run, even on the same day (!!). Then factor in the variation from one dyno to another and you could get yet another 5-10% discrepancy. This could, theoretically, take the overestimate to beyond 20% over-reading error - or so it seems. Which in turn could bring my C1's output down to 100bhp-ish.

In the meantime, I'm pretty convinced the C1 needs carbs syncing at the very least - the horrible idle (which seems to be on three), and the somewhat lethargic starting, and strange behaviour when on full choke, could be a number of things I suppose. Plugs? Imbalanced carbs? Air filter? However the first thing to check would be valve adjustment. Even though the previous owner(s) kept a carefully annotated notebook with at least two shim charts from past work, it's possible that the bike is out of adjustment...
Check it all out. Mechanical health of the engine is always a good place to start, to eliminate what it isn't. Chances are the clearances and cylinder compression numbers will be good, but you never know.

Do you have a picture you could share of your dyno chart? That might shed some light on how the bike is breathing and how it's fueling. Were there any recommendations from the shop or was it just a dyno run to show HP numbers? Was it rejetted and if so, what are the settings (jetting) now?

Something I'd check into, but won't address your rough idle, would be to get the fuel level as low as possible into reserve then fill completely with E10 RON 95... :-k the assumption being you're running E5 RON 98 exclusively. If within about 5 miles the bike feels livelier, you'll have your indicator right there.

As for the rough idle, on 49-state or equivalent ZX-9Rs, fuel gumming in the pilot circuitry can be an issue. You may need to pull the carbs out to poke a wire through the pilot jets and blast out the pilot circuit plumbing.
https://www.zx-9r.net/viewtopic.php?t=68821
Kawasaki ZX-9R Ninja EVAP sE1. At the track she's said to be outclassed, but on the street, she reigns unmatched. It's a years old claim, challenged from every direction, but always the same outcome or worse. I hear next year's challenger is going to do the trick. ;)
-- Mods: Genuine Keihin rejetted, Nissin caliper upgrade, SuperTrapp Aluminum Racing Series exhaust (Made in USA), ZG sport-touring shield, AEM UEGO wideband digital AFR readout, Evans NPG waterless coolant, éan creiche malar stripes.


Sorry if it seems that I post 10x more than everyone else. I use a PC, so posting thoughts is a snap. :smt024
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by bobbydj »

e1_ZX-9r wrote: 23 May 2022, 16:07
bobbydj wrote: 21 May 2022, 07:57...All that said, the C1 itself is in need of a little bit of fettling - it idles like shite, and the C2 feels livelier and more eager pretty much everywhere. If I'm honest, I'm still not sure I haven't been lumbered with a Euro bike, with the 100bhp restrictions in play, although the clocks are in miles not km and, also, even though I dyno'd it at 120bhp.

I think my mate's tester might be erring on the generous side by quite a margin. Not sure how much discrepancy there is. But according to some estimates, it's reckoned that with rolling road (rather than engine) testing, figures can vary by as much as 10% from run to run, even on the same day (!!). Then factor in the variation from one dyno to another and you could get yet another 5-10% discrepancy. This could, theoretically, take the overestimate to beyond 20% over-reading error - or so it seems. Which in turn could bring my C1's output down to 100bhp-ish.

In the meantime, I'm pretty convinced the C1 needs carbs syncing at the very least - the horrible idle (which seems to be on three), and the somewhat lethargic starting, and strange behaviour when on full choke, could be a number of things I suppose. Plugs? Imbalanced carbs? Air filter? However the first thing to check would be valve adjustment. Even though the previous owner(s) kept a carefully annotated notebook with at least two shim charts from past work, it's possible that the bike is out of adjustment...
Check it all out. Mechanical health of the engine is always a good place to start, to eliminate what it isn't. Chances are the clearances and cylinder compression numbers will be good, but you never know.

Do you have a picture you could share of your dyno chart? That might shed some light on how the bike is breathing and how it's fueling. Were there any recommendations from the shop or was it just a dyno run to show HP numbers? Was it rejetted and if so, what are the settings (jetting) now?

Something I'd check into, but won't address your rough idle, would be to get the fuel level as low as possible into reserve then fill completely with E10 RON 95... :-k the assumption being you're running E5 RON 98 exclusively. If within about 5 miles the bike feels livelier, you'll have your indicator right there.

As for the rough idle, on 49-state or equivalent ZX-9Rs, fuel gumming in the pilot circuitry can be an issue. You may need to pull the carbs out to poke a wire through the pilot jets and blast out the pilot circuit plumbing.
https://www.zx-9r.net/viewtopic.php?t=68821
Thanks for the suggestions!

I don't have a printout of the dyno run, but I have asked for one (a few times) - I'll see if i can scare one up and post a copy. I should actually be able to get an electronic copy, thinking about it.

There were no recs from the shop and no rejetting or any other work was done. It was just a run to try and establish the bike was not a dreaded Euro bike.

RE E10 and E5 - I'll brim it with E5 next time I've got 150 miles on the trip and see how it runs on that. It's a good call, so yeah - cheers for that.

What I like about this C1 bike: the gearbox and linkages feel young (more positive than my C2 did, even when my C2 only had 18k on it). I also like the suspension - it's "oilier" - lovely damping at the back. Thirdly, I like how my chicken strips are only about 10mm compared to about 20mm on the C2. Both bikes have the same tyres fitted at roughly the same time. The chicken strips suggest to me that the C1 is more willing to lean, and is happier to tip in, and - also - inspires more confidence in me to let it do those things. However, this strikes me as a bit ironic. As you'll know, the C1 bikes have a slightly lower rear end because of the construction/dimensions of the rear shock (fyi the C1 shock has a black spring, the C2's is yellow). The C2's very slightly higher rear shock was usually felt, by riders who'd owned both bikes, to enable the C2 to steer quicker, tip in more readily, and generally be nimbler. So quite why I find the opposite is something I've yet to suss out!

Anyway, again - cheers for that. Much appreciated.
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by bobbydj »

Grinsaki wrote: 21 May 2022, 09:02
bobbydj wrote: 21 May 2022, 07:57 making weird intermittent "clack" noises at low speeds in low gears.
This could be the chain clacking to the swingarm. My B did the same and it was caused by a tight spot in the chain.
Thanks again for this.
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by Grinsaki »

You are more then welcome. Glad I could be of some help. :smt023 I,ve been messing with this issue for some time, checking chain/sprocket and wheel alignment but I could never get it just right. Somehow measurements would not be the same when rechecked. :-k
So after looking at all the wheel and swing arm bearings which were all fine I decided to just leave it at that. I have my chain slightly loose as to not eat up the main bearing on the output shaft. And when in slow traffic I use some extra clutch to prevent it from clacking. 8)
Happily driving and refurbishing a ZX-9R B1 8)

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Quite a few...mostly the ones that will hurt you due to self overrated driving abilities and lean angles... :D
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Re: What's your 9's mileage II?

Post by bobbydj »

I'm the same. I've always erred slightly on the side of too slack rather than too tight. And for the reason you mention.
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